Curse

Qing Guang · Oct 02, 2009, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

And my argument continues to be, how can you not? This game is nearly 5 years old. The good, the bad, the ugly are all on the wiki.

Except they're not. Take a look at the builds I've got here: http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/User...un_with_builds.

Okay, so most of them are crap, or mediocre at best (and only like 2 are for PvP, but I'm just proving a point here). I admit it. But guess what? None of them are on PvX - I just checked. The closest thing would be the necro builds, simply Gui's a generic MM. But anyway, my point is that not everything is on wiki.

I'm not saying they should have picked bad original builds, but... couldn't they at least have not picked observer mode builds?

The Cake Archer · Oct 02, 2009, 07:46 PM // 19:46

I don't think that choosing meta bars was bad, its just that the AI is terrible at using these bars. Frenzy and rush? infuse? Ward against foes? Song of conc? The AI is terrible at using these skills. Theres also some skills on bars that the AI wont even touch. Even if the AI was 'updated' to use skills better, it still wont get around the fact that heroes are terrible at bodyblocks ( I'm looking at you LC snare ), and cant split (cripshot bar). Therefore the devs should've chosen more bars that are AI friendly.

Winterclaw · Oct 02, 2009, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Here's what I would have taken for "original":

1. Something that is not in the current meta but still solid.
2. Something that uses skills not likely to be buffed or nerfed.
3. Something the AI can run.
4. Something that doesn't suck.
5. Something that wasn't ripped directly from the wiki/observer mode.

While there probably isn't much left to be original with, they could have done better than a combination of straight rip-offs and some that are unplayable by the AI. And no, I don't believe that Anet will be able to fix the AI to use all those bars properly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symeon

I am annoyed about two things. Firstly, how much unnecessary effort the Live Team have put into this. If they hadn't had the contest and simply copied PvX bars, unless they included Tease/AoD mesmers or Tainted necro, I wouldn't have complained, because of the minimal effort required. But since they had a contest, sifted through thousands of bars, and ended up picking ones they could've taken skill for skill from PvX, as well as several bad ones - valuable developer time has been wasted. Secondly, the contest rules stated that builds should be original, not taken from another source. Only a handful of the winning bars comply with this. So not only was the contest not needed, but it turned out to be a complete joke.

The man-hours spent on all this could have produced a decent balance update, or even implemented Sealed Deck. I think ANet lost their sense of priority a long time ago, but it just hurts to see such an utter waste of time.

QFT. The only good that came out of it is a couple of people got an item and the ability to give the henchmen names. The bad of it is they picked a number of bad or meta builds and we got lied to about it from the very beginning.

Does anet have any wonder why people are calling GW2 vapor or threatening not to buy it since those that play have to be subjected to this kind of nonsense every few months? There really needs to be a dev shake-up from the top and to bring in people who have GW's original vision and purpose in mind.

snaek · Oct 02, 2009, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by inde

*sigh* I'll say it, because I know a lot are thinking it. This game is nearly 5 years old... what originality? And if you hold the notion that you possess an original build give me 5 minutes with google and I'll prove you wrong. If you hold a combination that is so truly original there can be found no mention of it... it's probably that way for a reason.

disagree. many heroes have rarely seen play in pvp, i.e. wars. therefore many hero pvp war builds will be different from the ones found on pvx (aka either pve hero bars or human pvp bars). you have to consider the following 2 outliers when creating a build: 1) is it pve or pvp? (better yet, specifically which area/format) and 2) is it human or hero? the end results of the build will change drastically. you'll find that when mixing pvp+hero, the build will turn out to be a lot more original. heck, even simply asking to make a sin gvg bar will likely to be original due to the fact that sins, human or hero, are not currently used in gvg.

a lot of times people will ask me, "can you give me a good necro build?" and i always give the same answer, "for what?". being generic simply does not cut it due to the fact that each build serves a purpose and therefore will be good in some circumstances, but bad in others. these contest builds are not necessarily bad (although some of em are questionable), however they are terrible for the intended circumstances and i do hope they reconsider.

El Presidente · Oct 02, 2009, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

And my argument continues to be, how can you not? This game is nearly 5 years old. The good, the bad, the ugly are all on the wiki.

Yet, one of the rules was:

Quote:

Originally Posted by GW.com

Originality: Entries must be the submission of the contestant and cannot be taken from any other source. Your submission must not infringe on any patent, copyright, trademark or other intellectual property right, or any privacy, publicity or publishing rights of any third party, or be libelous, obscene or otherwise contrary to law.

By entering the Guild Wars Henchman Skill Bar Contest 2009, (a) you agree to all of the terms and conditions of these Official Rules and Conditions, (b) you warrant that your entry is your own original work and that it does not violate any rights of any third party...

So, let's hold a contest with certain rules; yet, select the winners even though some (all, by your statement, Inde?) have violated said rules. Reward the fraudulent?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

People are complaining because they don't want more contests.

No, contests are great, time permitting and when the other issues you mentioned have been addressed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

In short, people are upset because ANet does not appear to understand what the community wants.

Uh, an answer as to why they set forth rules and then didn't follow them???

zwei2stein · Oct 02, 2009, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

............

Yes, i get it. People got involved

But what kind of involvement this is? Everyone slowly gets this idea that there could as well have been none constest, that devs could simply havw taken wiki builds and be done. The contest was pointless, the community involvement was pointless.

It community participation is pointless, it sends really bad message ... Add the fact that people were directed to stay aways from the very builds that won, feeling of betrayal here are quite understandable.

Next time, if there is hero contest for PvE, Discord necro will win. That is pretty much granted from my pov. And that is pretty bad result of this 'participation' contest as you can see.

...

I have no idea what they wanted to really achieve, but happy community did not result.

FoxBat · Oct 02, 2009, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

.
Next time, if there is hero contest for PvE, Discord necro will win.

That actually wouldn't make me so mad. But if they followed the methodology shown here, it would be an AP-curses caller winning.

Martin Firestorm · Oct 02, 2009, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

I wasn't that mad at this when I first saw it. But Regina's completely oblivious post that ignores the concerns of people is just infuriating. I agree though with Inde that "creative" builds should not be submitted. You want stuff that will actually help your team. But the lawyer in me really doesn't like violations of IP law.

Well what were you expecting her to say?

"Yep, the builds are both unoriginal and suck, but we had to go with what you dimwits actually submitted."

If you had no problem to start with, there was nothing in her post that should've got you going.

I don't get some of you people. Are there ANY builds which are both useful for gvg/ha and original?

Winterclaw · Oct 02, 2009, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

disagree. many heroes have rarely seen play in pvp, i.e. wars.

That's because melee AI isn't that great and to play warrior really well you need to know how to switch targets properly, proper ade use, and chizuu dancing if you can pull it off. Then you have to consider whether or not you are going to lineback, if so you have to adjust your build and playstyle accordingly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stien

I have no idea what they wanted to really achieve, but happy community did not result.

Ego buffing. They pretended to get the community involved, the community responded, some people submitted wiki builds making their job easier, and at the end of the day they have an inflated sense of self-worth.

Squishy ftw · Oct 02, 2009, 08:23 PM // 20:23

The result of this contest is just too funny, to say the least. I expected anet to be at least a little bit original in the builds they selected.

Grats to the winners though...

Jensy · Oct 02, 2009, 08:24 PM // 20:24

I think that the purpose here was to give players who don't have a full 8/don't have a pvp alliance/don't have pvp friends a chance to take 1-2 henchmen and go. While they do now take heroes, one could argue that a hero could play better than most AI (with you pushing their buttons, after all).

Sure the hench will kill themselves with frenzy - so will bad real players. Sure they'll get bars of exhaust and not be able to split - again, so will bad real players. I don't see much difference in terms of clueless noob/clueless hench. At least the hench might have a chance and being better at interrupts.

You can argue that people this bad shouldn't be playing anyway, but if they have a desire to play pvp, and a desire to get better, they're going to have to suck balls at the start. You usually can't just instantly get an N list full of people that will come and help.

Some of these bars baffle me as well, but in terms of them being able to work as intended for people that fall into what I described, they'll likely be fine with some AI tweaks (as long as said tweaks don't take 12 billion months).

fwiw - I didn't copy my bar from wiki; it just so happens that anything that doesn't suck total ass is there anyway.

snaek · Oct 02, 2009, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by winterclaw

That's because melee AI isn't that great and to play warrior really well you need to know how to switch targets properly, proper ade use, and chizuu dancing if you can pull it off. Then you have to consider whether or not you are going to lineback, if so you have to adjust your build and playstyle accordingly.

which is why a human war skillbar will look different from a hero war skillbar. since hero wars are not used, it will automatically likely to be an "original" bar (and by "original" i don't mean something that hasn't been created or done before, but simply something that is not in meta and/or popular on pvx). it is not saying that the hero skillbar will be effective in gvg, but it will be more effective for the hero war to run rather than giving the hero war a human skillbar. submitting a human war skillbar into a henchie skillbar competition makes no sense to me.

I Angra I · Oct 02, 2009, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by pansy malfoy

fwiw - I didn't copy my bar from wiki; it just so happens that anything that doesn't suck total ass is there anyway.

the people who are angry just because they're "wiki builds" confuse me greatly lol ;o

Coast · Oct 02, 2009, 08:39 PM // 20:39

+10for originality

Karate Jesus · Oct 02, 2009, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Angra I

the people who are angry just because they're "wiki builds" confuse me greatly lol ;o

Maybe it's because the rules of the contest said we weren't allowed to use them.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ............:/

Vazze · Oct 02, 2009, 08:51 PM // 20:51

They are a lot better than the original henches so I don't really see the problem. I would normally say that if you get satisfaction from tweaking AI builds then go play HvH but since it is gonna be shut down: AI does not belong to pvp, f you enjoy playing with heroes, have fun in pve.

Artisan Archer · Oct 02, 2009, 08:59 PM // 20:59

I can imagine people came up with some of those bars but;

- RaO Thumper,
- MB ele (2x),
- TPIY para,
- VoR mesmer,
- LC necro (2x)
- UG ele
- MoI ele
- Coward sin

That's just pushing it.

I think there are about 2-3 builds people actually thought about instead of JUST ctrl-c ctrl-v

I mean; SoC, Frenzy, Primal Rage, Hammerbash+Dev Hammer, Shock, Wild Blow, Wards, Make Haste, Aggresive Refrain.

That better be one helluva AI update...

I think we can classify this as a big failure, especially since they admitted it actually took more time than when they just would've copied the builds of wiki themselves.

ALSO:

I do appreciate the enormeous effort put into this project; people coming on weekends and stuff, really. I'm just saying it might not be a very good idea to do this again in the future.

English Warrior · Oct 02, 2009, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Some Henchmen have interupts RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing glorious Gwenway revamped mrite?

coil · Oct 02, 2009, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Over the past couple of weeks, Robert and Linsey have been looking at the Henchman Skill Bar contest submissions and deciding which of the bars you submitted should go into the game. The Henchman Skill Bar contest took up more time than we predicted, due to the overwhelming response of the community (more than 30 000 submissions!). We view this initiative a success, despite the fact that it's taken a little longer for the team to select winning skill bars than if they had come up with those bars themselves. The in-game submission tool was something that Mike worked on and it's something that we may find use for in the future. Robert has been taking point on this project, and has been coming in on the weekends for that....I’ll try and grab Robert when he’s not ridiculously busy to give me a few more tidbits.

nice joke...

Igorputski · Oct 02, 2009, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

But yeah, those are obviously all minor things, just like GvG, HA. You can easily ignore those

Now I do agree with this as those two arenas are highly overrated.